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RE: Is the IP layer the right place to support location information
Kenji,
Privacy notions of the sort you describe may be just fine for a
proprietory service, but it's hardly appropriate for an open standard? My
preference is for a protocol in which BOTH ends negotiate whether to
exchange personal information, based on PRIOR authentication. IPsec gives a
mechanism for authentication and encryption between IP addressable nodes.
The question it seems to me is: are we talking about optional information
exchanged within an (existing) authentication protocol, or an application
layer function which exploits (existing) lower layer function?
regards, Richard
> -----Original Message-----
> From: EXT Kenji Takahashi [SMTP:kt@nttlabs.com]
> Sent: 13 January 2000 01:02
> To: EXT Austin Bill-P23393; ext-ip-location@research.nokia.com
> Subject: RE: Is the IP layer the right place to support location
> information
>
> Austin,
>
> Thank you for the nice summary. I also would like to point out that such
> lo
> cating services are on the market already. Here in Japan NTT DoCoMo has
> bee
> n providing the "Ima doko" service that deliver the location of PCS phone
> ho
> lders over PHS/fax/ISDN network for several years. DDI will also start
> prov
> iding similar services. And soon DoCoMo will start similar services with
> ce
> llular phones. In Us, Snaptrack develops and sells locating serivce
> softwar
> e to celluar industry giants. So far, main users are business - e.g.
> locati
> ng sales persons out of office. The privacy protection is very simple:
> you
> have to know the PCS phone number to get the location of one who carries
> th
> at phone. And you should subscribe the service and obtain PIN. You can
> loc
> ate only the phones subscribed to the service. So far there have not been
> a
> ny law suits or anything regarding privacy invasion but I guess the notion
> o
> f privacy is pretty different depending on country and culture.....
>
> Regards,
>
> Kenji
>
> At 11:21 00/01/12 -0700, EXT Austin Bill-P23393 wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: EXT Randy Bush [mailto:randy@psg.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 10:21 AM
> > > To: Ron Lake
> > > Cc: ext-ip-location@research.nokia.com
> > > Subject: Re: Is the IP layer the right place to support location
> > > information
> > >
> > >
> > > > There is no question that broad availability of spatial
> > > information on the
> > > > Internet (including both mobile and stationary devices) is
> > > important.
> > >
> > > as a devil's advocate and just to keep the game honest, i
> > > question it. i
> > > do not mean to be hostile by doing so, but rather to force us
> > > to be able to
> > > stand up to external criticism having though it through as
> > > opposed to just
> > > making broad statements.
> > >
> > > i have yet to see real justification for this. some folk
> > > think they see
> > > great market opportunities, but then the specifics get kind
> > > of vague. the
> > > only solid case i have heard to date has been e911 for ip
> > > mobile phones.
> > >
> > > we need three or six solid application examples to back this
> > > up. and, as
> >
> > The usefulness of proximity related location information has been well
> > thought out and the marketing possibilities have been explored
> extensively.
> > I am in the Mall and am near the barber shop. My preferences in my
> mobile
> > device state that I have not had my hair cut for 6 weeks and my schedule
> > indicates that I do not have any appointments for several hours. The
> barber
> > shop, whose schedule also indicates an opening, automatically schedules
> me
> > for a haircut, notifies me that it has an opening for me at a specific
> time
> > and sends me a coupon for $2.00 off if I reply within ten minutes. It
> > guides me from where I am to where it is and when I am done, payment is
> made
> > automatically by my mobile device.
> >
> > The toddler wandering out of their own yard (or into the pool area or
> out of
> > the house), the Alzheimer's patient, asset tracking, and so forth, are
> other
> > examples of potential applications. Lots of other uses and applications
> > have been thrashed out in our own collective marketing and business
> > development departments. There are some simple examples on the Motorola
> > Bluetooth web site "Bluetooth in Action" section at
> > http://www.mot.com/bluetooth/action/ .
> >
> >
> > > we can be perceived as encroaching on privacy and security,
> > > these examples
> > > should also be thought out along these dimensions.
> >
> >
> > This is a huge Public Relations management issue. I have been on talk
> radio
> > stations talking about Bluetooth, stored preferences in devices and
> location
> > as enablers and I have found that the reception is somewhat negative.
> > Privacy (confidentiality) is the primary concern since most people do
> not
> > understand the implications within the other three fundamental security
> > elements.
> >
> > Another interesting data point is the volume of negative publicity
> > surrounding the recent announcement of the "Digital Angel", a human
> > implantable, muscle or motion powered, single chip tracking device.
> Almost
> > every news story or article about this device played up the negative
> aspects
> > and security problems of the device. Very little attention was paid to
> its
> > potential applications. Even Jeff Harrow, in Compaq's "The Rapidly
> Changing
> > Face of Computing" technology journal (
> > http://www.compaq.com/rcfoc/20000110.html#_Toc471710920 ) had this to
> say:
> >
> > "but you'll pardon me if I don't volunteer to be a beta tester, even if
> they
> > have a less painful way of inserting the bug than in the movie. Hummm
> --
> > but on the other hand, the hero of The Matrix didn't volunteer, either.
> > Could Big Brother be knocking...?"
> >
> > You can see more of the press coverage from links at
> > http://www.stockhelp.net/adsx.html if you are interested.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > randy
> >
> >
> > --
> > Bill Austin http://home.att.net/~wbaustin/
> > Arizona Internet Professionals Association http://www.azipa.org/
> > AzTeC Free-Net http://aztec.asu.edu/
> > Motorola Bluetooth http://www.mot.com/bluetooth/
> > Humor from Arizona http://azhumor.listbot.com/ or
> > mailto:azhumor-subscribe@listbot.com
> >
> >
> Kenji Takahashi, Ph.D.
> NTT Information Sharing Platform Laboratories
> "Get local on World Wide Web!! Mobile InfoSearch at
> www.kokono.net/english"
> kt@nttlabs.com www.kokono.net/english p: +81 422 59 6668 f: +81 422
> 59
> 2699